| Photography Forum: Suggestions: |
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Q. Remove Country Flags, Please!
Asked by Mohammad Porooshani
(K=20705) on 9/8/2006
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Well, as I mentioned here, they are some (a few) photographer who care about country flag of photographers even more than the shot!
for example please visit this shot to find how someone can tell the others they are blaming his Critique because I'm an Iranian and the defendants are too, calling us Devil, My Danish friend a Mafia member, and American friend of mine a lier and an Iranian and so on. I think we don't need this flags all over, just in profile I think is Enough, it's an international site and we can find world wide critiques on our works, so, what is the difference if we know from what nationality is this critique?!
This topic is made for every one who feels harmed by any nationality offensive word!
check this one:
http://www.usefilm.com/Image.asp?ID=1175798
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Saeed Al Shamsi
(K=47515) - Comment Date 9/8/2006
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Dear Mohammad
Just take it easy, in life time you always encounter such narrow minded where neglecting them is the best way you do.
They are persons just want to make trouble for themselves and they have no control in what they say, unfortunately you can find them every where regardless nationality.
What happened is that apart from being young guy, some time lack of photography knowledge resulted in what happened and that is not the first time nor you are the only one to be “criticized” if that is accepted as critiques
So every one keep his/her own country’s flag or what he/she likes, look ahead and enjoy the art of photography.
Regards
Saeed
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Mohammad Porooshani
(K=20705) - Comment Date 9/8/2006
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Dear Saeed, My problem is just a reason, I want you to think, Why we need these flags there? is it the flag speaking or the person? I think sometimes these flags are artifacts and are not useful, for example, Aperture (Photographic Magazine) Removed even photographer's name on the Images and leave a reference to the end of magazine to follow up! I think they are right! these things will affect Art, Names, Nationalities and many other things, We better remove this Unwanted things or at least make it possible to be removed.
There is only one Option in My Usefilm Preferences, Show flags! But I think it makes my point of view, what if I want to change mine on the others?
Anyway, I still think we don't need those flags at all (I love my flag and I would love to be everywhere, but where it has its Dignity)
My very bests for you,
Mohammad
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Rina
(K=26519) - Comment Date 9/8/2006
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Flags next to photographer's names can sometimes be useful for the viewer to understand the origin (geographical location) of a photo.
Flags can be a symbol of our nationality or simply symbolic of where we are at this time. For example, I am Australian but I am currently living in New Zealand and most of the images you see in my portfloio, were taken here.
I am a proud Australian, but after 5 years here, I also consider myself Kiwi, am proud to be one and so will proudly display the NZ flag.
If you have a problem with your own flag, or if flags in general bother you, then please uncheck the box in your preferences that says "Show flags".
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Mohammad Porooshani
(K=20705) - Comment Date 9/8/2006
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Dear Rina, I'm Proud I'm an Iranian too, but, why we have to know critic's country? plus, we suffer lots of insults through this flags in past two days, some critics have no fear to call each others with amazing remarks like Devil and..., and I think we need only the location of photograph, not the nationality of critics.
and, I know about that flag option, and I noted this in above, but after that, it will affect only my view and everybody can see the same as before.
thanks for expressing your idea,
Mohammad
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Rashed Abdulla
(K=152890) - Comment Date 9/8/2006
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Dear Saeed, there was not such thing as me saying anything against any flag of any source at all.
http://www.usefilm.com/photographer/24538.html
I went there and found a confusion of a city name not related to the country and the flag not related to either of them, and I thought of pointing out that.
As it was confusing to me, that’s all.
No more or less.
All of the best
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Hugo de Wolf
(K=184670) - Comment Date 9/8/2006
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Hi Mohammad,
In light of the comments you received, I think it's a combination of two issues.
As usefilm an international community, and one where not everybody is fluent in English (myself included). The exact meaning of how a critical comment is phrased can be easily misinterpreted.
Notwithstanding the off topic and quite unacceptable comments that were posted to your photo, I think the flags is a different issue. I also think others should stay out of differences in opinions that don't concern them. Those reactions only stir things up, no matter of how well they're meant to be.
To me, I find the flags rather useful - I find it quite interesting to see the nationality of a person commenting on my photos. But it also helps me to put a critique into its perspective. Some non-native English speakers intend to say something constructive, but write something completely different due to the language barrier. It's all a matter in how well a comment is phrased and how well the reader interprets that comment. The flags and origin of the writer might can help in understanding what is being said.
I fully agree with Rina - Flags next to photographer's names can sometimes be useful for the viewer to understand the origin (geographical location) of a photo. And they may also be useful to understand the nature of a critique.
I hope you see what I mean. Sometimes just asking politely what the writer means is much more effective than reacting in the spur of the moment.
Cheers,
Hugo
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Mohammad Porooshani
(K=20705) - Comment Date 9/8/2006
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Hi dear Hugo,
I know what you are trying to tell me, when I'm talking about Flags, I mean those in front of Critic, not for the Photos or even profile.
and about misunderstandings, we all know the common senses, I could hardly can find any connection between those critiques you've deleted from my image and misunderstandings!
plus, every one has this right to defend his/her idea, when someone keep it up, it can not be a miss spell or something else,
anyway, thanks for closing threads, deleting critiques and any other action you have here,
Mohammad
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Doyle D. Chastain
(K=99493) - Comment Date 9/8/2006
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Mohammed:
I'm going to have to agree with both Rina and Hugo. I find the flags helpful at least to the extent that if the language isn't well constructed or is in some degree confusing, it's clear to me right away that there is a language barrier issue. As you know, I commented on your photo while that was going on still and, honestly, have not found Rashed to be like he seemed to be on the photo. It seemed out of character, in other words.
I have not found the flags to be a cause of trouble, nor have I found anyone routinely attacking another nationality. Nobody has a perfect country or government . . . especially since people inherently have flaws and as long as people are not perfect governments will not be perfect. The struggle people have is to keep their beloved countries headed in the right direction as they see it. But HERE . . . on UF . . . we're just people and citizens and regardless of a person's nationality there can be no fault ascribed to any one member for the actions of his or her government.
And lastly . . . IF such should happen it will be dealt with by the staff here. And they DO deal with it. Those comments are gone from your image and, frankly, they tend to make the person who MADE the comment look bad . . . not the person to whom the comment was made. I have had this experience myself so I know it gets dealt with rapidly. Let's keep this about photography and simply notify the staff (each comment has a -abuse- link) if somebody's out of line.
Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
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Mohammad Porooshani
(K=20705) - Comment Date 9/8/2006
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Dear Doyle,
I'm in agree with you but, to some extent, being only on Photos and leaving any other stuff for other place is WHY I request this action.
When I'm a photographer, it's really important for others t know who am I and where I'm coming from, or where this shot have taken, but, as a critic, why we must know other's nationality?
We need to be more free from non-art artifacts here to stay straight forward for art-only manners, I think, and these flags are not any help, on the contrary, I think they are playing the inverse role!
As photographer, sometimes we may be even our national spokesman (for example in cultural relative images) but, as a critic, I'm not sure if anyone can act the same (as a national spokesman). as I mentioned three times above (!) when I'm talking about Flags, I mean those in front of critic's name in critiques.
Anyway, Thanks for following up.
this is My point of view, and I'm here to find whether I'm right or wrong, I'm not so stubborn, I will accept my faults but for these flag, I'm still telling, Please Remove Flags, Please!
Many Thanks and kind regards,
Mohammad
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Jeroen Wenting
(K=24628) - Comment Date 9/8/2006
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If people are going to post inflamatory comments they'll do that anyway. Report them and they'll be taken care of (wouldn't be the first time we had to ban someone for things like that).
Names are almost as good an indication of a person's nationality (or at least origin) as that little flag, should we abandon those too and cower in fear lest someone take notice of our existence and decide to send a suicide bomber?
Because that's the end result of giving in to terrorists (and comments like the ones you mentioned are the equivalent of terrorist acts as they are clearly meant to intimidate and destroy a community).
Effectively the only thing one can do with such people is openly ignore them and privately hunt them down mercilessly and destroy them (so in this context, ban them).
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Rina
(K=26519) - Comment Date 9/8/2006
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Mohammad,
As Hugo has pointed out, flags are particularly useful next to the comment made as it put things into perspective when trying to interpret meaning of text written by people who are not fluent in English.
I have explained to you the reason why I find flags useful and both Doyle and Jeroene have tried to reason with you as well.
By starting the thread, you are putting this issue up for open discussion by an international community - not just Iran. But it seems you are not willing to accept that others may have differing opinion to you.
Aside from pointing fingers at members have wronged *you*, you have not given us a solid enough reason for why we must abandon flags for *everyone*.
My advice to you still stands. Turn the flags off in your preferences. If you don't like the idea of others seeing your flag, then change the country in your preferences also.
I'm sorry for all the trouble you've been having lately, but really, this is your problem - not anyone elses. Please talk to the staff privately about how best to deal with things. I'm certain they will help, if you ask them.
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Mohammad Porooshani
(K=20705) - Comment Date 9/8/2006
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Dear Rina,
I'm listening to all of you calm here, but unfortunately, you are telling me that this is helpful for you! I'm telling you some objective reasons but you are still subjective,
thanks,
Mohammad
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Rina
(K=26519) - Comment Date 9/8/2006
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No Mohammad, be honest with yourself, you are asking for the removal of flags because it became an issue in heated discussions that you've been having lately. Do you really believe that this is not transparent?
No-one has a right to make you feel fear, shame or discriminate against you because of your flag. If this is happening to you or you know of it happening to others, please let Al know as it is certain to be against the Terms of Service for this site, and the offenders will be dealt with swiftly.
R.
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Mohammad Porooshani
(K=20705) - Comment Date 9/8/2006
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Thanks Rina for your advice,
but, to be honest, NO, I don't tell this JUST because of those hard time, I did it as I thought even before, but I'm honest, those hard time was a motivation for this request.
Mohammad
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Hugo de Wolf
(K=184670) - Comment Date 9/8/2006
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Hi Mohammad,
I see your reasoning, and I think you have some valid points. On the other hand, I also believe, the points you are making are basically all based on blaming those flags.
As everybody replying to your suggestion argue the flags are an addition, I don't think it's justified to redo all the programming involved in Usefilm to get rid of the flags, just because you see them as the cause of the abuse you received.
As Usefilm is all about photography, and ONLY about photography, your nationality is of no consequence. If people are critical because of your nationality and do not discuss your skills as photographer, they will be dealt with by the Usefilm staff.
I'm sorry some members were unjustifiably rough on you, but it would require more than that to see a real reason to remove the flags. Most people seem to find them useful, and a nice addition...
I hope you see this in an open, constructive and positive way; the abusive comments were removed, and if it happens again, I'm sure the Usefilm staff will also do the same. Please see this rationally, and think it over for a while. Is it really the flags you're blaming?
Cheers,
hugo
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Rashed Abdulla
(K=152890) - Comment Date 9/8/2006
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Dear Mohammad, you have to understand that my English is not as good as my post looks like here.
What I post goes through the MS.Word translating soft ware and most the time the translation from Arabic to English is very stupid, this is the way it is and although I am trying my best to avoid all of those mistakes still there are there.
Dear Mohammad I visited this preference as I have said earlier:
http://www.usefilm.com/photographer/24538.html
And there I found the city/country and the flag are not related to each other, I though there was something funny I could not understand why and please see my comments there.
Yes I also was very angry as the moment I put my comment on your image you went firing at my and so came many Iranian firing at me defending your image.
This is not the right thing or the right way, it’s your image and my comment, not all of those Iranian to be involved.
If my comments are not right English wise or being as insult to you, report it and let the staff on UF take the necessary action for that.
I told you there after dear Mohammad that I do keep a great respect for you as a person and for the rest of your friends and all of the Iranian people as well, I repeated this several times, each time I had to find a different format on MS.word soft ware trying to resolve this problem, you never excepted that.
I have no reason why I hate to see any flag in fact the flag when it is there coming with the comment of with the images it is very educational and very helpful to me.
Dear Mohammad, I not the best, May I am the worst here, but I do not add a comment on your image meaning insult for you at all.
Lately I was trying to be more objective (I do not know if this is the right word or not :) with my comments to give better contribution here, unfortunately it did not work with many people and they get mad for real comments and they love for sweet comments.
Today I got 3 friends of mine asking for improvement on my image , why not, they are my friends and they want me to be better, nothing wrong with that at all.
But again let it be Mohammad that you always been right and I am wrong, I am sorry that I put a comment on your image, next time I will make sure if I do so to say your image is a perfect one.
Again dear Mohammad, I have only love for you, and your friends.
I wish you all of the best my friend.
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Rashed Abdulla
(K=152890) - Comment Date 9/8/2006
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Dear Rina , there is no room to accuse any one else in this matter who might been in trouble with Mohammad, if there is some one to be punished for that comment it is me as the comment was mine.
Not the flags I have twice now posted the link for the flag story, it is my comment which I did write on Mohammed image that was not a very pleasant comment to make Mohammad happy.
So there is some one to punish by UF let it being me and as long as will keep Mohammad happy I do not really mind being punished by UF.
There is no need we talk about more people involved about the flag matters, look at my comment on that flag and let UF decide and I am prepared for any action, specially if this will make see Mohammad very happy and enjoying himself here.
All of my best wishes to all.
This is a translation from Arabic to English on MS-Word
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Doyle D. Chastain
(K=99493) - Comment Date 9/9/2006
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Rashed:
My experiences with you have all been positive and I told Mohammad that as well. I saw the comments before they were removed and they were either translated very poorly or they were mean spirited. I would certainly give you the benefit of the doubt.
Let's try not to overkill this. Mohammad is NOT trying to say he's upset for any negative critique of his image. He's upset for what - when translated - was a personal attack on him . . . not his image. You have apologized . . . but the fault is neither yours nor his. So let's not over do the response by saying you'll only call his pictures perfect. That's not what he wanted or what he complained about and it's just a LITTLE unfair to oversimplify it that way.
I have found you to be an honorable and honest person and was one of the ones that critiqued your picture. Give him the benefit of the doubt. . . let's ALL get along and move on!
OK?
Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
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Rashed Abdulla
(K=152890) - Comment Date 9/9/2006
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Ok my friend Doyle D. Chastain, I will make sure i do not leave Mohammad images behind and treat them the same way I treat every one else images here , I personnelly also like to improve my comments addingand be more selective and objective.
Thanks again my friend Doyle D. Chastain, certanly I my comment was not for Mohammad as person and just for the image as a photograph.
Best regards to every one.
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Rashed Abdulla
(K=152890) - Comment Date 9/9/2006
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Mohammad Porooshani {K:17649} 9/9/2006
Dear Rashed,
as I see here this portrait, suddenly I remember one of my photographic dreams, which I would love to take a shot with such this clothing, and I'm thankful you did this.
Before starting my suggestion, I would like you to know that I know lots of my suggestions are intended to be Outdoor Portrait, although Studio Portraits are great works, but, I think for My reason out doors maybe more Dramatic.
Well, I saw such this clothing here in Iran too, with some variants, but what I want to say is that,I would like to suggest the model look (Stare) at the camera, it will be more dramatic so (I think) and then, I want her to spread the Scarf to cover the rest of horizontal composition, and if luckily it is to happen outdoor, I would let the sun to shine through the spread Scarf right into the lens.
anyway, I leave an alternative to show the impact of spreading the scarf (without the sun ), plus I change the Saturation to make the skin more intense just for Dramatic reasons.
I think your portrait is an impressive studio portrait for such this clothing, so, Well done to you.
My very bests,
Mohammad
You see Mohammad that was a very fast reaction of yours again as after all I tried to finish up this problem you still into more cases with this matter
I have not seen how the ladies get dressed in Iran , and I did not live in Iran, this is my image here, and I do not like to link it to any Nationality then be plamed .
I never mentioned this image have anthing to do with IRAN.
http://www.usefilm.com/image.asp?ID=1177754&CID=6118344
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Mohammad Porooshani
(K=20705) - Comment Date 9/9/2006
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OK OK,
dear Rashed, let cool it down,
I think the only thing I can do here now is to explain what I meant for you to solve this misunderstandings, as I feel more comfort here talking about nationalities, although it looks like it's becoming my and your conversation and it's very bad.
Iran is a Big country (Geographically) and we have lots of Cultures here in our country and we have Arabs here too. I saw this clothing in photos and movies and I was dreaming and believing it has a great Dramatic expression, because (as I know you are in agree with me about the EYEs) eyes are the main subject, even more than any kind of portraits!
But, to photograph this clothing, I have to fly to south and being there to be allowed shooting these women, and it's a little hard for me to travel to the south (I'm a Little too busy for that), and I told you that I'm so happy you can take the shot more easily than me, Just IT! what is wrong with this? if you are so sensitive to hear IRAN name, I can help you not to call this name again, but, be honest, I'm not looking for trouble, I just want to cool everything down between you and me, in my creed, I can't be like this for more than 3 days, so, I just Wanted everything to be cool, but, what you did is to make another remark for me!
I'm sorry, I don't know what can I do now? you are reacting so strange that I even don't know what to say, you leave the whole message and just look at my country Name? it's amazing though!
My bests Regards,
Mohammad
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Rashed Abdulla
(K=152890) - Comment Date 9/9/2006
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No need Brother Mohammad, no need at all. you did a great job I am just feeling sorry from the first place adding a comment on your image and turn into all of this.
I am also sorry for Doyle D. Chastain ,Hugo de Wolf, Rina , sorry that I was the cause of trouble for all of these people.
Thanks a lot brother Mohammad you been so kind and a very good example.
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Rashed Abdulla
(K=152890) - Comment Date 9/10/2006
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mohammad king {K:30} 9/10/2006
rashed abdulla you are sceptical man
Thanks a lot Mohammad
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Rashed Abdulla
(K=152890) - Comment Date 9/10/2006
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Mohammad Porooshani
(K=20705) - Comment Date 9/10/2006
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I'm so sorry dear Rashed, it is not what a man should say, I know him from his comments, maybe a friend of mine, I don't know, but, if you think he is me! I want to say that you are Absolutely Wrong!
anyway, God bless you and him.
Mohammad
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Rashed Abdulla
(K=152890) - Comment Date 9/10/2006
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Its ok Dear Mohammad, not harm been made, its all ok and have a very pleasant day.;)
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Leo Régnier Я£
(K=62803) - Comment Date 9/13/2006
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Sorry Mohammad, I agree with Rina...
Regards,
Leo
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Lucio Sassi
(K=146) - Comment Date 9/13/2006
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Io Amo e sono orgoglioso della mia bandiera e del mio paese , per quanto riguarda i luoghi comuni su noi italiano tipo Mafia o Spaghetti o Pizza .... io penso che il problema sta nella testa di chi dice questo ,cioè nella persona nella sua intelligenza ed educazione.
Essendo un viaggiatore ho grande rispetto di tutto di tutti e se tutti la pensassero cosi non vi sarebbero ne differenze o guerre.
:)
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Gayle's Eclectic Photos
(K=91033) - Comment Date 9/29/2006
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hi,please take note of my new flag ;) ...it was created for me by staff member,Phil Cohen....i was inspired by your thread here and it made me think about the concept of those doctors in many countries called,"Doctors without borders"....also,my own Native American heritage believes in the concept that all life is connected...One Nation,many tribes...i love to learn about others culture and do my "armchair travels" by viewing images from around the world...i see my new flag as a message of universal connection with our shared love of photography...
peace,gayle
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Gayle's Eclectic Photos
(K=91033) - Comment Date 9/29/2006
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hi, forgot to mention that the new UF flag can be chosen by anyone here and you just select it in your "preferences" under "MyUsefilm"
peace,gayle
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