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Q. Can anyone tell me how Hallmark Institute of Photography is looked upon in the industry?
Asked by Waylon Christner
(K=0) on 12/5/2003
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Can anyone tell me about Hallmark Institute of Photography. I plan on attending in Sept. 2004? They seem to be very hands-on, and have a real world atmosphere. I have really researched how the industry works, and I have been active with a few customers as well, but I still have alot to learn in order to be in commercial fashion, advertising, and editorial. I realize that I will need to assist for a few years after graduation, while trying to create a name for myself. My goal is to create a name for myself by the time I am 40 years old (I will be 30 when I graduate). If anybody can tell me how this school is looked upon in the industry I woulld greatly appreciate it!
Thanks,
Waylon
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Eveline Shih-Pitcairn
(K=4406) - Comment Date 12/5/2003
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The website looks good...
http://www.hallmark-institute.com/
But since I'm on the West Coast, I only know of the good ones out here.
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A J
(K=45) - Comment Date 12/21/2003
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hey waylon. i just graduated from hallmark in june of 2003. i'm 20 years old and waited a year out of high school to go to hallmark. so you want to know how hallmark REALLY is?...hallmark, in my opinion is run by a money hungry asshole president who likes to make his student body believe that after leaving hallmark, you will have a well paid, full time job and what not. i'll give you a run down on the entire year. the first half of hallmark is somewhat slow...and the teaching is basic..and thorough..i really can't complain about the teaching. however, so many of the instructors are from areas of the country where pop culture isn't really known, so if your looking to become a fashion photographer in new york city...hallmark may not be for you. no infact it's not for you. most are wedding, family portrait type photographers who really don't have an eye for anything other than sears type portraits. few were successful photographers..otherwise why else would they be teaching at hallmark? now...upon entering hallmark, your meant to believe that the cost is $40,000, around there. well...while i was there, I was driving a half hour away to the mall in holyoke to buy props (with money not included in your loan). 30 minutes away to amherst and northampton to search for models...all of this gas money comes out of your own pocket. and the props..while the school does have props for you to use in the commercial studio...they're all shit and old, and when you have 170 students picking from the same props you get a lot of the same photos..shitty props = shitty pictures. so if you want a good portfolio at the end of the year, you need to go out and buy them, with the intentions of returning them after...well, thats more gas. so, figure on spending around $50,000 for the year. trust me. one great thing about the school. during the second half, they open up the school at night, from 7:30pm until whenever the night manager leaves (night manager being a student)...usually my schedule at hallmark would be the 8am-5:30pm...go home to nap, socialize. back to the school at 7:30 and stay until 1am (on average)...towards the end, pulling all nighters are common. and do it all over the nexy day. it really is an intense program...photography bootcamp if you will. i look at it like, you either have the skills in photography or not. at the end of the year, we have to present out portfolios to the entire class, which takes 3 weeks for everyones to go up. they are judged by a panel of 5 photographers, most being hallmark graduates living on a farm with their own wedding or family portrait studio. so again, if your work is somewhat "different" they really wont get it, and you'll get a bad score. anyway. i would say that out of the 170 students i graduated with, 10-15 portfolios were awesome. the rest look like they were taken with a throw away point and shoot camera. hallmark gives you the technical skills, f-stops, shutters, etc etc. i think photography requires a natural eye for what looks good. and most of the people just didn't have that. it's something that hallmark can't teach. hallmarks gives you the equiptment needed to make good pictures.. you can borrow lenses lighting, everything, and take it home for the weekend...they give you free use of the computers, printing as much as you want..and the ink isnt cheap. so they are generous with that. i'm not sure exactly if things will change. hallmark was something i will never forget, i made some amazing friends. the location sucks, but because you have nothing to do in the small town of nowhere, you tend to make friends fast. for a young kid just out of school, the parties are always fun. i'm not sure if i would recommend hallmark or not. MOST of the people from hallmark are working for wedding photographers, school portrait companies. and arent doing what they planned. so it's hard. hallmark claims to have job placement...no, no, no. job placement means they can get you a job with a senior portrait company. hallmark has NO connections with vogue or vanity fair. if you want a good job. you have to be good..and in the end, do it on your own. hallmark is full of shit in a lot of ways. sorry for a long, and maybe confusing review of hallmark. if you have any specific questions...feel free to email me at socaljay05@yahoo.com
the 0 is 05 is a zero.
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Chris Lauritzen
(K=14949) - Comment Date 12/21/2003
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Schools do not necessarily make you good; they can give you the basic understanding and maybe help you develop an "eye". I have 20 years in the IT world, I have seen lots of ?book? smart people that have no ability at all when it comes to the real world. Personally if I am an editor at a mag and I get two images in for an assignment, one is so so but the person is from a prestigious photography school and the other image is good but the person has no schooling, whom do you think I would choose? I don?t put a lot on schooling; I think some one has to have it inside them that maybe a school can develop. Nothing but nothing beats taking a lot of pictures.
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Eveline Shih-Pitcairn
(K=4406) - Comment Date 12/23/2003
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Good schools teach you "hands-on" technique and good business and work habits. If you have the passion, skills and discipline, one can learn the business by oneself and/or "apprenticing" with an established photographer/studio.
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Mark Beltran
(K=32612) - Comment Date 12/23/2003
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Chris hit the nail on the head perfectly. Lots of people coming out of the whoop-dee-doo art schools and all they have is something to hang on the wall and worthless words.
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Mark Beltran
(K=32612) - Comment Date 12/23/2003
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AJ has got the facts down straight, too.
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Eveline Shih-Pitcairn
(K=4406) - Comment Date 12/23/2003
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Which is why a smart aspiring professional photographer would inquire about the photography/art schools before enrolling... Waylan: keep taking photographs, checking out other schools and/or apprenticing with a photographer you admire.
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Waylon Christner
(K=0) - Comment Date 12/24/2003
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Wow! Its amazing to me how all you old schoolers have such a closed mind when it comes to education. Mark, you say that people that come out of art schools and such have nothing to offer. Okay I will agree with you in that there are quite a few that are like this , and these people try to hide behind there school name in order to get any were, BUT I do know for a fact that there are REAL PROFESSIONALS that came out of these schools, that are active in the commercial photography industry, and you know what the big kicker is? They are doing what they love FULL TIME, and are taken seriously!!! Not just being a hobbiest and waiting to there whole life to get were they want to be!
The funny thing is, that my question was " how Hallmark is looked upon in the industry?" and I got only one response from someone that actually knows about the school. The rest of the responses were just negative and closed mined, and these people know nothing about the school!!!
FYI, I have tried the whole "just get an apprencticeship with a photographer", but that just doesn't work like it did in the old days. It is differnt now! These Professionals want assistants that are pros already just trying to get there name out there. I do know the realities of the commercial photography industry, and I know that you half to pay dues just like everyone else.
Keep in mind that I am not trying to open up a potriat studio, or do weddings and events. If this was the case, then sure I wouldn't need any expensive eductaion teaching the commercial industry, and business ethics. My passion is the COMMERCIAL INDUSTRY, not something that anybody can just do!
I have researched to death.... all the schools!!! And frankly, the one I have chosen offers the most of what I am looking for. You say that I am not a good photographer, because I didn't check schools before enrolling. Well, that is just so un-true! Like I said, I exhausted all options before just deciding to invest my money. Once again people respond negatively to something they know nothing about! And furthermore they don't really respond to the origianl question, " how is Hallmark looked upon in the industry?"
As far as AJ goes, I got alot of mixed reviws fromm him, saying that this is bad, and this good about the school, and him even mentioning that he's not making any sense to himself! I have two other people that he reffered me to, and they had nothing, but EXCELLENT things to say about the school, and these were the best of the best in ther class! Now, I am not a nieve kid coming out of high school. I am a 29 year old guy that wants his passion to be his career and life; communicating thru art. I know that every school is going to have its good and bad things. Its all about drive, determination, passion, and not expecting someone to give you a break, because what your school name is. Yeah, you want to go to a respected school, and you want to learn all the essentials that are needed to succeed, but in the end its about what you make of it after the graduation. I don't much respect what someone says, if they don't have the quality work to back it up! AJ, I have asked to see your work, and you refused. That doesn't give what you say any credibilty. I appreciate you being honest with me, but the way you talk is as if your just nagging. Oh, and by the way... All schools are money hungry!!! Keep in mind that when you trash talk this does look very un-professional, and it could reflect on you succeeding in your career! You say that you are doing very well for yourself in New York... well, I am happy for you if this is all true, but I also feel sorry for you if it isn't.
I am attaching a sample of my present work to show were I am as an ameture, and I can't wait to learn and surpass my ameture work.
If I offended anyone, I apologize for it, but I just felt that you all said your piece, so it was my turn.
Thank you,
Waylon
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A J
(K=45) - Comment Date 12/24/2003
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hmm...waylon, i knew the people i referred you to would have nothing but good things to say about the school. i'm not nagging, i'm telling the truth, and i'm sure once your at the school, you'll see for yourself. sure, in the end, after it's all said and done, i can look back and appreciate hallmark. but at the same time, you have to look at the money. it costs the same as a 4 year university. and while paper is not involved in your success...they don't even give you a degree, for 50,000, i want a degree. not something thats printed off a home computer. you get a certificate of completion (one in which there was a spelling error on this year.) when i left the school, even the best of the best...their portfolios might get laughed upon in the real world. i wouldn't show you my work, simply because i am trash talking the school. and your right, i am being unprofessional by doing so...i'm 21 years old, what do you want? this has no reflection on my career, i'm doing better than most of my graduating class...and when it comes down to it, i'm very professional or else i wouldn't be where i am, only 6 months after graduation might i add. you should not feel sorry for me...i have nothing to prove to you, i don't know you and you don't know me. i have no reason for lying to you about my success. if i was working at burger king, i would tell you, because honestly i really don't give a shit about you, or what you think. you asked for my opinion of the school, and i gave it to you. and because your set on going to hallmark, you get angry when i discourage you. i give you 4 other people who had a great experience at hallmark, ask their opinions...and they have nothing but great things to say..it's their opinion. also that fact that their real names are involved and anything bad they say could get back to hallmark always helps. i'm doing excellent for myself, and hallmarks name has never even been mentioned along the way. no one has ever asked to look at my book. they give me a camera and ask me to do something well. along with the rest of the people who made comments...their right, it's not about the school you go to, it all start with you. photography, in my opinion, is a talent that your born with. you can develop it with any school that will teach you about f stops and shutter speeds. the thing that sets hallmark apart is they have millions of dollars in equiptment. you talk about the instructors as if you know. yes, most of them are excellent, and you learn from them. but if this we're completely true, they wouldn't have come to hallmark to teach after their businesses went down the drain. waylon, i hope you have a wonderful experience at hallmark.
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Waylon Christner
(K=0) - Comment Date 12/24/2003
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wow! you have alot of hostility biult up in you! I appreciate your honesty ,and I mentioned that. I did not get angry that you were honest. Your write you don't have anything to proove to me, or anybody else out there. Oh, and the feeling is mutual, when you say that you don't give a shit about me. I didn't expect you to. Seems to me that you have alot of growing up to do yet. Don't worry you will get there some day! As , for you saying that people don't ask for your portfolio, they just hand you a camera and say give your best. Tell me what kind of commercial work is that? Let me know what agency, or art director is operating like this, because I will go fill out an application today! The reason I chose Hallmark is I don't have 4 years to sit in a class and learn theory, history, and get some hands-on. I am looking for all hands-on , and business ethics. Mabye I am making a bad decision, and mabye not. All I know is I have researched as many schools as possible and the best results I got were Hallmark. I hope we have no hard feelings though, because after we half work in the industry together. I hope you the best!
waylon
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Chris Lauritzen
(K=14949) - Comment Date 12/24/2003
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Waylon,
FYI, I am doing what I love, taking pictures and getting paid for it. Maybe if I was younger I would have different look on schools but now days I see most schools in all professions only in it for the money. I wish you the best of luck in a very completive profession, as I said before, schools can help but nothing beats taking a lot of pictures.
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A J
(K=45) - Comment Date 12/24/2003
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*sighs*...you're right waylon, i do have some growing up to do. i'm in no rush though. there's no hostility on my end. you're the one that wrote a long defensive post...for everyone who posted their views. ah, and i'm not in commercial photography. my bad on saying they don't ask for my book. let's just say i had to prove myself. well waylon, happy holidays, and good luck.
...and watch for those typos.
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Eveline Shih-Pitcairn
(K=4406) - Comment Date 12/24/2003
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You want an answer on how this school is looked upon in the "industry"? Well, "I don't know!" That is why I wrote, "the website looks good..." And a few of these "talented" photographers who responded to your thread don't know how this school is looked upon in the industry either... But that is their life and not yours.
I did not say you are not a "good photographer", I said a "smart aspiring professional photographer" and if you think this school is great for your needs then go for it!
I'm not a "commercial photographer" but I do know it's hard to be "successful" in the photography industry (whether it be weddings, portraiture, or commercial), and the truly talented, determined, and business-savy are the one who make it (whether they have a "degree" or not). Some of the most talented folks I've come across never completed their degree because their skills we're so valued...they we're being "paid" to do what they do instead of being "taught." You seem to have some if not all of these qualities and I wish you the best in your endeavors!
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Mark Beltran
(K=32612) - Comment Date 12/25/2003
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Oh yes, Waylon, there are lots of them making money and doing what they love doing. I just think more in terms of talent, and less about moneymaking ability. To me, professional means that the photographer makes his living with photography, and does not always mean they are any good. LOLOL. It's good they're well-known. I don't know many and I forget their names quickly because a lot of the work I'm seeing does not impress me. Only a few. Please be assured that I'm not that close-minded when it comes to education. I'm mostly self-educated (in art) as many in the past have been. As far as talent, I think 98% of it is inherent, and 2% of it is sincerity.
Gosh, that hobbyist designation sure stings!
But I'm not offended at all. Rather, I'm thankful that you brought this up for discussion. The best and most kindest thing you & I could do is respond with honesty, bite, and sense of humor. I like what Chris Lauritzen had to say. Bravo, Chris. I hope this thread keeps going. Cheers, all.
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Jeff McLain
(K=15) - Comment Date 2/8/2004
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Hey Waylon,
As a graduate of Hallmark 2001, I can tell you MY experience...as you'll have your own - and I hope you make the best of it!
First off, I assist commercial advertising, catalog, and fashion shooters as well as editorial shooters here in San Francisco. Hallmark's education isn't quite like getting training via assisting, but acquiring the skill to consistently get good exposures gives you the ability to focus more attention on the image and not the mechanics or technique behind the image. This is what Hallmark can teach you.
I work with some photographers who are so reliant upon the digital technology, that they forget to think about the actual lighting techniques. They just throw a bunch of strobes on the product and take a hundred digital polaroids until they are satisfied. Hallmark will teach you how to read the light and make that first digital or analog shot right on or at least very close. Experience will give you the ability to "see" the light and know the best ways to attain the desired result.
I do agree that Hallmark highly embellishes their "job placement" and the program is costly. But not as expensive as Brooks Institute.
No photo degree or education will buy you fame or success. That all comes from your own energy and drive. And luck.
I, too, got many differing opinions about Hallmark before entering the program. I didn't think the program was as "super intense" as folks like to make it out to be. Just do your work, stay focused, have fun and spend your time coming up with good ideas that are attainable while there.
Hallmark is seen as a good school by folks who have worked with the graduates and whom have visited the school. Folks in New York are more aware of Hallmark. Folks out here in SF tend to say, "Oh, you guys make nice cards." But, I work consistently for a body of ten different photographers, some of whom trust me with their studios to work on my own book. It's all stepping stones to where you want to go and I think attitude is a HUGE part of your success.
Be well and have fun,
Jeff McLain www.mclain.smugmug.com
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Waylon Christner
(K=0) - Comment Date 2/9/2004
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Jeff McLain,
I truly appreciate your advise and information that you have given me. Finally a response from someone that is working in the COMMERCIAL field.
Thanks so much,
Waylon
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Dave Arnold
(K=55680) - Comment Date 2/9/2004
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This is an older question that I missed back when it was at the top of the list. Thanks for bringing it back up because I was totally entertained.
When I ask a question in an open, public forum, I know the potential that:
1) people may offer an opinion I may not want to hear and
2) the potential of having the topic changed to something I didn't intend it to be.
In that regard, Waylon, I cannot believe the disrespect you showed in coming unglued just because you didn't like the answers. You talk about your disdain for "closed minds" while at the same time totally closing off your mind for information that may possibly enlighten you to facts you had not uncovered in your "research".
I don't know about you but if I were about to spend $50k, I'd want a whole lot more input from as many sources as I could find. Not just who the school recommends talking to or what their web site says, etc. I would relish hearing from various sources, including anyone who had bad experiences with the school.
You talk about maturity, Waylon. Trust me, you have a long way to go. In about 20 years you might look back on this and say; "you know, I should have just filed that information and used it as a weight in my decision".
What you missed in coming unglued is that AJ was trying to tell you that you will need to fit into a mold at Hallmark. I don't particularly care for your photo that you attached but I can say that from what AJ said, this type of photography, which you claim is your style, is not going to get you very far in the scoring section before the 5 judges at Hallmark. Sounds to me like you'll learn the typical family photo shoot at Sears instead of what you want to do. But you kind of missed out on that advice because of your own issues (which includes anger).
I don't know AJ from Adam but his opinion (and that which others gave) should have been welcomed by you. And because of your anger and immaturity, you also failed to realize that he was genuinely telling you both the good points and the bad points of the school. Instead, you called it his "confusion".
Frankly, AJ had good info. I know if I paid somebody $50k only to find out they spend no money on keeping up props and studios, an integral part of photography, I'd be miffed too. But go ahead and spend your money if that's what you want to do. It's yours and it's a free country.
My advice to you, though, is to go take a few classes in English and focus hard on grammar and spelling. It is tough to take one seriously when they fly off the handle but when you do it in such a way that it bastardizes the English language the way you have... well, it makes for very hard reading.
Not in your corner,
Dave
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Waylon Christner
(K=0) - Comment Date 2/10/2004
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Dave,
Wow...I must say you are so full of knowledge. Thank you for all your opinions. I can tell that you were just waiting for this topic to come alive again, so you could unleash, and do some "Waylon bashing"! Your write I do need to take the time to check my spelling errors before submitting, and mabye I did fly off the handle a bit.
I must say, you can really tell how many people spend way to much time on these internet forums...always needing to give their opinion. That tells a lot about a personality.
I wish you the best,
Waylon
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